質問
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退会したユーザー
2020年7月28日

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日本語 に関する質問


私は車が欲しいです。リーさんは？
自転車は欲しいです

I want the answer to imply that Li-san doesn't want car, but he does want a bike
Is that the correct way to do it? とはどういう意味ですか?

I'm sorry, I'm not on premium, so i don't have a 'does it sound natural' option
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necota
2020年7月28日

  • 日本語

私 : 私は車が欲しいです。リーさんは？
リーさん: 私は自転車が欲しいです。

評価の高い回答者
nishishoro
2020年7月28日

  • 日本語

リーさん's answer seems to be an off straight one.

Usually, most naif reply will be in same format with question such as:
私は自転車が欲しいです。

Since we are not village children, we cannot expect such attitude everytime everyone.

So, yes, 自転車は欲しいです will be one of the way to answer implying 自動車 is not matter to me but I will talk about 自転車.

は shows that 自転車 is the topic リーさん has chosen. He has neglected to talk about 自動車. Isn't it ordinary attitude that we usually see in our daily life?

I will not argue such attitude from ethical view point. It is what we experience in our real life.

評価の高い回答者
退会したユーザー
2020年7月28日

@nishishoro thank you very much for such detailed explanation! I now see that Li-san's answer is rude and it would be better to say '私は', as it's explained to us, non-Native Japanese speakers - 'as for me, it's bicycle'. I experimented and it came back to bite me. Glad that it didn't happen in the real life.

Nishishoro-san, your explainations are detailed and understandable. Can I please ask you to briefly explain double particles? Of course if you have time to do it!

どうもありがとうございます！

nishishoro
2020年7月28日

  • 日本語

@AsumuelVert
It's my pleasure to answer your question. Hopefully, it will be useful for you.

Could you tell me about detail of double particles? I would like to know some examples.

評価の高い回答者
退会したユーザー
2020年7月28日

@nishishoro you're very kind! Thank you!
I understand the usage of にも and it's role. The same with への/からの
先週東京に行きました、京都にも行きました

But why should I use とは in 私は彼女とは20年来の友人です? Is it because I talked about my other friend, so I need to put a contrast here? And is it the same with other *は double particles - I need to put は to put contrast with something I've already talked/will talk about?

私はお母さんに手紙を書きます and 私はお母さんには/にも手紙を書きます
Can I use the first or I must use には/にも?

どうもありがとうございます!

nishishoro
2020年7月28日

  • 日本語
@AsumuelVert OK. Now I know about your problem. 私は彼女とは20年来の友人です。 It is not very much different from: 私は彼女と20年来の友人です。 Your understanding about は as contrast is one of results from function of は. Speaker added は to 彼女と because he wants to convey to listener that his focused part was this phrase. When speaker gives a focus on some part in a sentence, it means that part occupies center of his attention. The most important content for the sentence is 彼女と so that from this way of expression, contrast effect comes out. As a matter of fact, speaker may do it aiming at that effect but it is not always so. When context is comparing among various person, contrast effect will match satisfactorily. 私は彼女と最近知り合ったばかりですが、彼女の姉さんとは２０年来の友人です。 But different context will not bring contrast effect but just an emphasis. 私は彼女とは２０年来の友人だから、私の頼みを断るはずがないと思います。 Speaker is showing that 彼女と is very important part. お母さんには also same. Phrase of お母さんに is placed at center of his mind. This phrase will have contrast effect as well as emphasized effect or particularized effect. Speaker is saying that お母さんに対しては、どんな事情があっても手紙を書きます。 Function of も is different from は. When も is attached to any part of sentence, that part will be positioned as one of that kind. お母さんにも will make お母さんに to become similar position to お父さんに、友人に、先生に、and so on which are not mentioned in explicit way. Please let me know if you want further clarification.

@AsumuelVert
OK. Now I know about your problem.

私は彼女とは20年来の友人です。
It is not very much different from:
私は彼女と20年来の友人です。

Your understanding about は as contrast is one of results from function of は.

Speaker added は to 彼女と because he wants to convey to listener that his focused part was this phrase.

When speaker gives a focus on some part in a sentence, it means that part occupies center of his attention. The most important content for the sentence is 彼女と so that from this way of expression, contrast effect comes out. As a matter of fact, speaker may do it aiming at that effect but it is not always so.

When context is comparing among various person, contrast effect will match satisfactorily.
私は彼女と最近知り合ったばかりですが、彼女の姉さんとは２０年来の友人です。

But different context will not bring contrast effect but just an emphasis.
私は彼女とは２０年来の友人だから、私の頼みを断るはずがないと思います。
Speaker is showing that 彼女と is very important part.


お母さんには also same. Phrase of お母さんに is placed at center of his mind. This phrase will have contrast effect as well as emphasized effect or particularized effect.
Speaker is saying that お母さんに対しては、どんな事情があっても手紙を書きます。

Function of も is different from は. When も is attached to any part of sentence, that part will be positioned as one of that kind.
お母さんにも will make お母さんに to become similar position to お父さんに、友人に、先生に、and so on which are not mentioned in explicit way.

Please let me know if you want further clarification.

評価の高い回答者
退会したユーザー
2020年7月28日

Thank you very much for your reply and detailed explanation!
Just to be sure, that I understood correctly - this sentence need an emphasis because of the second clause 私は彼女とは２０年来の友人だから、私の頼みを断るはずがないと思います。We've been friends *with her* for a 20 years, so I don't think that she will turn me down.
And 私はお母さんに手紙を書きます can be said, but it'll be simple 'i'll write my mother a letter'

中国経済には問題がある and in this sentence I place emphasis on China's economy (as for Chinese economy, there are problems) and contrast that other than economy problems, China has no problems?
日本語はアメリカ人には難しいと思います - and in this sentence the 'アメリカ人に' is the most important and center of the sentence

This is a confusing topic, but this subtle details is exactly what I love about Japanese
どうもありがとうございます!

nishishoro
2020年7月29日

  • 日本語
@AsumuelVert Thank you for your right understanding to my explanation. That is what I wanted to explain. Actually は and も has opposite function. One is to position a part of sentence as focused/selected item, on the other hand, another is to make the part as one of that kind. It is the reason why we seldom hear the expression of はも combination. In the phrases of お母さんには and お母さんにも, weight of お母さん is felt night and day difference. お母さんにはも・・ seems a big nonsense. *** I think it necessary to indicate the fact that Japanese native speakers/writers are not always using は to intentionally add special effect to without-は format. It is just a psychologigal game that because they feel は-added word is especially important part of sentence or in other words, it is the core matter to be conveyed to listener/reader so that they put は to that word. Certainly listener/reader understands about this game quite well. Sometimes, listener/reader will take change of meaning from additional effect caused by this action. Also, sometimes he feels speaker/writer's state of mind, but also sometimes he takes that subtle difference of emphasis as neglectable factor. Therefore, speaker/writer feels a necessity to add は because he feels having an enough reason to do so, but sometimes his intention will slip away from eyes or ears of reader/listener. Reader/listener will always trace the context and expressions which are less influential to the context will be soon forgotten without further analysis. So, you don't have to worry too much about this は related matter. I myself often read Japanese articles/compositions and meet は added expressions but some of them are unable for me to find necessity why は has to be added there.

@AsumuelVert
Thank you for your right understanding to my explanation. That is what I wanted to explain.

Actually は and も has opposite function. One is to position a part of sentence as focused/selected item, on the other hand, another is to make the part as one of that kind.

It is the reason why we seldom hear the expression of はも combination.
In the phrases of お母さんには and お母さんにも, weight of お母さん is felt night and day difference. お母さんにはも・・ seems a big nonsense.

***
I think it necessary to indicate the fact that Japanese native speakers/writers are not always using は to intentionally add special effect to without-は format.

It is just a psychologigal game that because they feel は-added word is especially important part of sentence or in other words, it is the core matter to be conveyed to listener/reader so that they put は to that word. Certainly listener/reader understands about this game quite well.

Sometimes, listener/reader will take change of meaning from additional effect caused by this action. Also, sometimes he feels speaker/writer's state of mind, but also sometimes he takes that subtle difference of emphasis as neglectable factor.

Therefore, speaker/writer feels a necessity to add は because he feels having an enough reason to do so, but sometimes his intention will slip away from eyes or ears of reader/listener. Reader/listener will always trace the context and expressions which are less influential to the context will be soon forgotten without further analysis.

So, you don't have to worry too much about this は related matter. I myself often read Japanese articles/compositions and meet は added expressions but some of them are unable for me to find necessity why は has to be added there.

評価の高い回答者
退会したユーザー
2020年7月29日

@nishishoro どうもありがとうございます for your kindness and patience to answer me so detailed! I think (and hope) that with time I'll get used to it. Again, thank you very much!!

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私は車が欲しいです。リーさんは？ 自転車は欲しいです I want the answer to imply that Li-san doesn't want car, but he does want a bike Is that the correct way to do it? とはどういう意味ですか?
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